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Residents Association of Greater Lake Mathews

RAGLM Board > General Discussion > RAGLM Boundary Lines-Have They Been Changed?
9/4/2013 4:39:09 PM
Choose your battles wiselyReply: SteveS

Obviously the boundaries were eroded a long time ago starting with the dissolve of the COI and the Woodcrest/Meadowbrook-Good Hope MAC encroachment. I wasn’t a resident at the time but sounds like the community fought the Woodcrest battle but lost. I’ve been unable to determine what happened with the Good Hope/Meadowbrook MAC encroachment. That could have been one that slipped under the RAGLM radar at that time. It would be great if you could shed some light on the history of that one for us.


I agree that to some amount it did lesson our community’s influence on its future by simply reducing the number of residents represented by our community and not another’s MAC. However, I disagree with your last statement. “Refusal to recognize the Lake Mathews Community historic boundaries will make it difficult to defend in the future.”  I’m not totally clear on who you are referring to with regard to “refusing to recognize the historic Lake Mathews boundaries” whether it be the County, RAGLM or the residents.  Either way though, I believe it would be just the opposite. Trying to defend boundaries that unfortunately are no longer recognized in any official capacity by the county and that overlap established/recognized boundaries represented by other groups, (MACs) is a futile effort. I think we have a better chance at influencing our community’s future and defending its boundaries if we’ll just recognize the reality of that and move on.


Thank you for the history on the subject of our boundaries and the MAC lesson. You made some good points as to why the residents would want RAGLM to stay a community organization and NOT want a MAC. Your participation is very appreciated and valuable to this community/the RAGLM organization.

“Choose your battles wisely. After all, life isn't measured by how many times you stood up to fight. It's not winning battles that makes you happy, but it's how many times you turned away and chose to look into a better direction. Life is too short to spend it on warring. Fight only the most, most, most important ones, let the rest go.”

? C. JoyBell C.

9/4/2013 7:56:09 AM
Erosion of the community boundariesReply: Laurie

Just offering a few clarifications:


To clear up a misunderstanding:  the RAGLM election mentioned was not the first election of RAGLM board members.  It WAS the first election since some had joined the board and/or the organization and the first in which some had participated but it was not the first election of board members where the membership had elected it's board members.  While I stepped down from the RAGLM board last year after many years, I served on the RAGLM board since shortly after it's creation by the merging of the Mockingbird Canyon Homeowners Association, UGHRAPOA and other area groups, I personally ran for a position on the board on multiple occasions, as did Cindy, Art, Russ, Mike, Judy W. and many others.

On to a couple of other points:

Former Supervisor Buster had long wanted more control of the development of
our Lake Mathews community, as his ideals in some cases differed from those desires and goals expressed by residents of this community.

It was at his office's encouragement that Woodcrest amended their proposed
COI application boundaries and maps, to deliberately overlap those submitted by RAGLM, for the Lake Mathews COI boundaries. His office opposed our community's application for the COI designation, but our community residents made a point when over 350 residents attended that hearing in support of the Lake Mathews COI application, which was then approved, with the "overlap" area between the two communities in place.

The later 2010 issue was a result of the Woodcrest community being reduced by continual annexation and erosion of that community by the city of Riverside. Since the MAC eventually had little land mass left upon which to represent, the Woodcrest MAC boundaries, at the direction of former Supervisor Bob Buster, decided to move their boundaries to overlap more of that of the Greater Lake Mathews community.

As a result, there came the extension of the Woodcrest MAC boundaries to the south and west, overlapping areas all the way south to Cajalco Road, and west to the west of El Sobrante Road, now giving Woodcrest considerably more influence as to how the area north of Cajalco Roadis eventually developed.

The former supervisor had also desired a commercial/industrial corridor on Cajalco among other things that this community expressed that it disagrees with, this muddying of the community boundaries lends itself to that end.

The Lake Mathews Community had long desired a rural designation; by contrast, look at the evolution and development of the Van Buren corridor.

A MAC (Municipal Advisory Committee) is a county entity; it's members are appointed by the Supervisor within whose district it lies. It's board serves at the blessing of the Supervisor and can be adjusted at the whim of that supervisor.

In theory, a MAC holds meetings in which it's board can make recommendations to that Supervisor as to what they would like to see on the agenda. However, in real life
experience it became clear that a MAC (or CSA, or CSD) can only make suggestions - if the recommendations meet with the approval of the supervisor, that's great. If not...the supervisor can and will ignore those requests. The Supervisor can also dictate direct to a community more easily and tell them what WILL be, as had been experienced by various MACs and CSAs in the area.

A MAC (or a CSA, for that matter) cannot question a supervisor's desire, or as county body, speak in opposition at public hearings of the county at the supervisors board hearings, or planning commission. They cannot address/act on issues brought up by the community AT it's meetings, or discuss anything that was not on the agenda. A quorum of their board cannot meet between the public meetings. Agendas must be approved by the county as well.

The county cannot dictate the desires to a community based organization such as RAGLM which is not controlled by the county.

Supervisor Buster had requested that RAGLM actually become a MAC so that the supervisors office could have more control of our community.

The muddying of the boundaries here on this specific issue (refusal to recognize the historic boundaries of the Greater Lake Mathews Community) is now having the effect of eroding our community and lessening it's own influence on it's future. Refusal to recognize the Lake Mathews Community historic boundaries will make it difficult to defend in the future.

9/3/2013 8:41:25 AM
RAGLM Response to Boundary InquiryReply: Nathan
     First, let me start by saying that if anyone has any questions regarding RAGLM please bring them directly to the board and we would be happy to address their concerns. All posts that follow our posting guidelines are generally approved within 48 hours. This has not changed but please understand we are all volunteers with regular lives and jobs which can take some time for us to get to the posts for approval. This is in response to your 4 posts, I just responded here in one post. I hope that was OK.

RAGLM only recently within the last few months has discussed anything about it's boundaries. In 2002 long before any of the current board, the RAGLM COI was filed with LAFCO and was approved. These documents along with meeting minutes and maps can be found on the RAGLM.org website here: http://www.raglm.org/about.aspx.

In 2010, then County Supervisor Bob Buster submitted a proposal to amend the boundaries of the Woodcrest MAC (proposal can be found here: http://www.raglm.org/pdfs/03.38.pdf or just the map found here: http://www.raglm.org/pdfs/macmap.pdf. Video of the meeting can be found here: http://riversidecountyca.iqm2.com/Citizens/Detail_Meeting.aspx?ID=1098

During this meeting (1:29:30), you are there giving your opposition which myself as well as others in this community are very grateful for. So the statement that you are not aware of the boundaries being changed, I believe is simply unfounded.

As you are aware, in January RAGLM did hold it's first public elections in which you were informed of numerous times via emails and public meetings. RAGLM had received a nomination for someone that lived in the newly Woodcrest MAC area (previously known to everyone as Lake Mathews) stated above. In the excitement of the new process and all the interest in wanting to volunteer, unfortunately the verification of this particular board member's residence were not fully vetted. A particular member was then elected to the board. Soon after the new members took their new positions in office, the issue of our community signs came up again. With lots of interest from the community, the board decided to pursue the relocation of our 'Welcome to Lake Mathews Signs'.

Page on Website: http://www.raglm.org/welcometolakemathewssigns/

Posts From Community Found Here: http://www.raglm.org/readpost.aspx?postID=30b0918b-4182-4644-9bbd-b7a1be571905

RAGLM then requested the re-placement of the Welcome Signs based on community feedback.

The Supervisor's office came back and informed us that the desired sign location placement changes were overlapping other area boundaries. This is when RAGLM decided to see what it could find on possible boundary changes in the past that this current board may be unaware of. Upon further investigation, we realized the Woodcrest MAC boundary change in 2010 as well as a boundary change for the Meadowbrook Good Hope area in 2007 which was before most if not all of the current board members. Under our current bylaws, we were forced to inform the then elected board member of their ineligibility to run for the desired position. This was not only tough for that particular member but especially tough for RAGLM to loose this wonderful volunteer who had brought so much to this community.

In June RAGLM informed the community about the issue from 2010 and the potential of getting this area back based on residents in those areas wanting to be represented by RAGLM not Woodcrest MAC. RAGLM set up a meeting with Supervisor Jeffries' staff as well as the other MAC area representatives to discuss the potential of re-aligning the boundaries. With strong opposition from the effected areas it was apparent that this was not something the majority of the residents in the areas wanted. The RAGLM board discussed this issue and voted to not pursue the potential changes at this time due to the amount of opposition by residents. Ultimately we must listen to the residents in our areas and try our best to stay inline with what they desire. At our last community meeting in August, the board announced that it would not pursue this issue at this time.

I hope this helps clear up any misconceptions about any potential boundary changes.
8/27/2013 1:02:53 PM
RAGLM Boundary Lines-Have They Been Changed?Post: Cindy Ferry
I have been receiving calls and e-mails asking me when RAGLM changed their boundary lines and why members of RAGLM were not asked if they wanted the boundary lines changes or given notice that RAGLM intended to change the boundary lines.  I do know the boundary lines and am not aware of them being changed.  What are the RAGLM rules on changing the boundary lines, as RAGLM is a private community group and not regulated or under any order or direction of the County of Riverside or State of CA.  Can the RAGLM board address this issue and give more info. on this subject?
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